I considered that too - if one asks for and receives payment, one has become a seller, or trader if you like. Whether the sale involved a service, a product or something less distinct is largely irrelevant.
Well I'm a born and bred South Islander. Actually, more than that! I grew up in the Waitaki valley..... can I call Mt Cook my mother too? unfortunately there's no cache of any nephrite jade in that area, but I'll gladly claim the Maori cave art as a part of my heritage,
Don't tell me China's running out of their own, sometimes splendiferous jade !?! Must be a Grand Canyon sized hole in the ground somewhere over there... I bought a cheap bracelet in Fiji made of third grade greenstone for peanuts more years ago than I'm admitting.
Ngai Tahu is at the apex of the non tax paying, racist and thuggish Maori Mafia.
This Iwi and others of its ilk make the 5 families of the New York Mafia look like rank amateurs.
The fact that the National Party are petrified of calling them out while NZ First actively encourage such activities leaves one with only one party to support and that is ACT.
Excepting the hapless caught up in the mix - Hilarious, if only the whole sorry scenario wasn't founded in morphing law, the fluidity of which becomes more mindboggling by the day.
Let’s not forget, Māori are not indigenous. They arrived, apparently on a whale or some such mythical story about 700 years ago. The British settlers a little over 200 years ago. So they had the place to themselves for less than 500 years. That is hardly a sign of indigenousness. My ancestors were indigenous to Palestine about 5000 years ago but much of the world feels that they don’t belong there anymore. The other half of my ancestral DNA can be traced back a least two thousand years. Their claim of indigenousness is thin to say the least.
5,000 years indeed! And yet I’d argue from what I know that the Jewish culture was more advanced around the Bronze Age than the Maori were in 1840. A key difference is as per John’s comment somewhere above, that the Jews had desacralised the universe by then, ergo the ‘created order’. No mumbo jumbo greenstone spirits & animistic BS.
The whole of the South Island was less than 2k in the early 19th C supposedly. And Ngai (now Kai - food) Tahu arrived in the South Island from the Hawkes Bay (allegedly) after Tasman had visited the South Island. I suggest that they are therefore colonizers there being no NZ at the time as control was tribal.
Also somewhat amusingly after Cook arrived the Maori name for NZ became Niu Tirani. Sounds like Dutch influence to me. I think the later term Aotearoa was just Aotea (tribe) with roa (sounds like rower) added, and this one seems somewhat of a British joke I feel.
Thanks Richard. Niu Tirani was/is simply a transliteration of New Zealand. It was used in the Maori language versions of the 1835 Declaration of Independence and in the superseding 1840 Treaty of Waitangi.
Yup, and all the so-called ‘promises’ of Te Tiriti were made to ‘all the people of Nu Tirani’ which I guess includes you & me. Special rights for all!! Woop woop. Can’t pick & choose which bits of each Treaty they want to cherry pick & distort.
I will have to push back on that John. It's basically Dutch for "New Tyranny" and sounds nothing like "New Zealand". But the interesting bit is that Zeeland in the Netherlands was recently at war with Spain so maybe there's a connection there. Tasman visited NZ before that war had finished.
Very good John, amusing and accurate as usual. Ngai Tahu are the consummate Grifters who want to add water to their green rock monopoly. Not sure if anyone saw the sob story tonight about the Tarawera eruption. Talk about milking it for all it’s worth. The hurt! The tragedy! (The Victimhood…). Same copybook as the Greenstone Tragedy Adopters. It’s ok if their kids steal precious shit from someone’s home, but any loss at all on their side is a tragedy beyond belief. (Yeah, I know, kids who don’t ‘whakapapa Maori’ also steal, but the stats are pretty damning and so my sweeping stereotype has some validity)
I did indeed see the OneNews Tarawera play item. The only thing we know about it is that it’s publicly funded. My favourite bit was the guy claiming that the eruption was caused by too many tourists i.e.,…colonisation!
Thanks for this. I keep wondering whether greenstone is turning into a symbol for some, which means that it will carry unknown qualities and can connect some people in ways that are not obvious. People can also be emotionally activated by a symbol - positive or negative.
But there are many symbols important to people all over the world. The cross and/or crucifix is an obvious one and they can be created, purchased and moved across borders without problems in most places. If you stole a cross from a church or a shop, then the offence would be stealing, which is against the law as would be shipping those stolen goods across borders.
My over breakfast, not very coherent take on this, is that there is confusion about what greenstone actually is and for whom. Figuring that out should take the next few hundred years.
Interesting thoughts Sande. I agree that greenstone/bone pendants are symbolic but the symbolism is cultural elitist IMO. The convicted Chinese duo’s greenstone was in raw/natural form
Oh, as Rowan Atkinson sorta said in Love Actually, ‘this is so much more than a lump of greenstone…’. They really do think that the ever larger lumps of greenstone they hang around their necks are somehow imbued with spiritual somethings. You’re not supposed to buy them I was told, but gifting is ok. Dunno, don’t really care either, but it’s animistic BS in the highest form. Or a money making scam. You choose.
And I didn't mean to imply that the prosecution was a great idea. I was more pondering the problems we face by mixing and mingling cultural/religious symbols in the legal system of a democratic state. That is, that people are forced to take on beliefs/symbolisms etc that are not their own. And it seems that this has permeated to even the "raw/natural" form you indicate. I'm mindful of Gary Judd's work (and many others) in this area in regard to the military and beyond.
Well interesting that you raise the symbolism thing. Wearing a wee cross has long been a common symbol for many in our culture. So a similar sized pounamu should be fine if that’s your thing. But check out the size of the things they now often lump around. They’re growing every year. A chiropractor’s dream. Reminds me of the size of the ‘kirpan’ that Sikh arsehole used to stab Henry Nowak in the UK… 21 cm long!! Religious symbol my arse.
"Our culture is not for sale"???? Hmmmm...
I considered that too - if one asks for and receives payment, one has become a seller, or trader if you like. Whether the sale involved a service, a product or something less distinct is largely irrelevant.
Ngai Tahu: ‘It’s not about the money’. There’s a Tui billboard right there! Yeah, nah.
Well I'm a born and bred South Islander. Actually, more than that! I grew up in the Waitaki valley..... can I call Mt Cook my mother too? unfortunately there's no cache of any nephrite jade in that area, but I'll gladly claim the Maori cave art as a part of my heritage,
I thought Greenstone was found all over the world, especially Canada and China. Ours is just supposedly a better quality.
Ngai Tahu’s jade comes with the Magical Maori Mystic Tick
Skiers this year better make sure their gear is dry before leaving NZ. Presume customs will be issuing fees for taking Nga Tahu's water next?
Don't tell me China's running out of their own, sometimes splendiferous jade !?! Must be a Grand Canyon sized hole in the ground somewhere over there... I bought a cheap bracelet in Fiji made of third grade greenstone for peanuts more years ago than I'm admitting.
Ngai Tahu is at the apex of the non tax paying, racist and thuggish Maori Mafia.
This Iwi and others of its ilk make the 5 families of the New York Mafia look like rank amateurs.
The fact that the National Party are petrified of calling them out while NZ First actively encourage such activities leaves one with only one party to support and that is ACT.
Apex predators on the public purse
Excepting the hapless caught up in the mix - Hilarious, if only the whole sorry scenario wasn't founded in morphing law, the fluidity of which becomes more mindboggling by the day.
Where would we be without McLean's take !
Let’s not forget, Māori are not indigenous. They arrived, apparently on a whale or some such mythical story about 700 years ago. The British settlers a little over 200 years ago. So they had the place to themselves for less than 500 years. That is hardly a sign of indigenousness. My ancestors were indigenous to Palestine about 5000 years ago but much of the world feels that they don’t belong there anymore. The other half of my ancestral DNA can be traced back a least two thousand years. Their claim of indigenousness is thin to say the least.
5,000 years indeed! And yet I’d argue from what I know that the Jewish culture was more advanced around the Bronze Age than the Maori were in 1840. A key difference is as per John’s comment somewhere above, that the Jews had desacralised the universe by then, ergo the ‘created order’. No mumbo jumbo greenstone spirits & animistic BS.
As the Aussie would say...."It's just a bloody joke Mate"
Sounds like the reckless Chinese couple were lucky to exit with their hides intact, rather than just an empty money pouch.
Agreed Barry. The Ngai Tahites & Wokesters were filled with righteous anger, itching to lynch the lychees
The whole of the South Island was less than 2k in the early 19th C supposedly. And Ngai (now Kai - food) Tahu arrived in the South Island from the Hawkes Bay (allegedly) after Tasman had visited the South Island. I suggest that they are therefore colonizers there being no NZ at the time as control was tribal.
Also somewhat amusingly after Cook arrived the Maori name for NZ became Niu Tirani. Sounds like Dutch influence to me. I think the later term Aotearoa was just Aotea (tribe) with roa (sounds like rower) added, and this one seems somewhat of a British joke I feel.
Thanks Richard. Niu Tirani was/is simply a transliteration of New Zealand. It was used in the Maori language versions of the 1835 Declaration of Independence and in the superseding 1840 Treaty of Waitangi.
Reverse engineer that 'Niu Tirani' transliteration and you have "New Tyranny".
Sounds about right.
Yup, and all the so-called ‘promises’ of Te Tiriti were made to ‘all the people of Nu Tirani’ which I guess includes you & me. Special rights for all!! Woop woop. Can’t pick & choose which bits of each Treaty they want to cherry pick & distort.
I will have to push back on that John. It's basically Dutch for "New Tyranny" and sounds nothing like "New Zealand". But the interesting bit is that Zeeland in the Netherlands was recently at war with Spain so maybe there's a connection there. Tasman visited NZ before that war had finished.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighty_Years%27_War
Tirani could also mean 'earth' too I guess. But not at all a slide from Zealand.
I agree these transliterations are idiotic. Phone = waea (wire?)
Otago - Oat a go? (oats were a main crop)
poti - boat (but sounds more like the Brazilian portuguese than the English)
Otepoti - oats boats
All loan words.
Kotanga=car aerial. An oldie but a goodie
Perhaps Ngai Tahu should be renamed No Tahu?
And this sister tribe, Nga Whaaku
I think there's an 'i' in there, John - Nga Whaakiu.
But of course, there's no 'i' in collective ownership : don't believe your lying 'i's.
Perhaps a motto above the main gates ‘It is better to receive than to give’?
Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for you…and then divide and wreck your country 😉
Very good John, amusing and accurate as usual. Ngai Tahu are the consummate Grifters who want to add water to their green rock monopoly. Not sure if anyone saw the sob story tonight about the Tarawera eruption. Talk about milking it for all it’s worth. The hurt! The tragedy! (The Victimhood…). Same copybook as the Greenstone Tragedy Adopters. It’s ok if their kids steal precious shit from someone’s home, but any loss at all on their side is a tragedy beyond belief. (Yeah, I know, kids who don’t ‘whakapapa Maori’ also steal, but the stats are pretty damning and so my sweeping stereotype has some validity)
I did indeed see the OneNews Tarawera play item. The only thing we know about it is that it’s publicly funded. My favourite bit was the guy claiming that the eruption was caused by too many tourists i.e.,…colonisation!
Thanks for this. I keep wondering whether greenstone is turning into a symbol for some, which means that it will carry unknown qualities and can connect some people in ways that are not obvious. People can also be emotionally activated by a symbol - positive or negative.
But there are many symbols important to people all over the world. The cross and/or crucifix is an obvious one and they can be created, purchased and moved across borders without problems in most places. If you stole a cross from a church or a shop, then the offence would be stealing, which is against the law as would be shipping those stolen goods across borders.
My over breakfast, not very coherent take on this, is that there is confusion about what greenstone actually is and for whom. Figuring that out should take the next few hundred years.
Interesting thoughts Sande. I agree that greenstone/bone pendants are symbolic but the symbolism is cultural elitist IMO. The convicted Chinese duo’s greenstone was in raw/natural form
Oh, as Rowan Atkinson sorta said in Love Actually, ‘this is so much more than a lump of greenstone…’. They really do think that the ever larger lumps of greenstone they hang around their necks are somehow imbued with spiritual somethings. You’re not supposed to buy them I was told, but gifting is ok. Dunno, don’t really care either, but it’s animistic BS in the highest form. Or a money making scam. You choose.
And I didn't mean to imply that the prosecution was a great idea. I was more pondering the problems we face by mixing and mingling cultural/religious symbols in the legal system of a democratic state. That is, that people are forced to take on beliefs/symbolisms etc that are not their own. And it seems that this has permeated to even the "raw/natural" form you indicate. I'm mindful of Gary Judd's work (and many others) in this area in regard to the military and beyond.
Well interesting that you raise the symbolism thing. Wearing a wee cross has long been a common symbol for many in our culture. So a similar sized pounamu should be fine if that’s your thing. But check out the size of the things they now often lump around. They’re growing every year. A chiropractor’s dream. Reminds me of the size of the ‘kirpan’ that Sikh arsehole used to stab Henry Nowak in the UK… 21 cm long!! Religious symbol my arse.
Nephrite and less common, serpentine…not sure what the fuss is about really, but that’s just me.